Nomsy’s Numbers and Trainer Troubles

Introduction

I started writing this analysis when Nomsy and the Trainer trait become the most requested topic for a full deep dive. Everyone seemingly wanted to know the sheer limits and capabilities of the Trainers and everyone’s favourite dragon: Nomsy.

I was pretty excited to know this as well and was somewhat hopeful about the prospect of a Nomsy solo carry comp. Surely with enough investment we could strike a balance between good and fun right? It didn’t even have to be a top 4 comp or even a C-Tier comp. I was more than happy for a variation that brought you a 5th and maybe a top 4 if you happened to high roll.

Although shortly into the calculations, I was finding it hard to stay positive as the the numbers dipped way below the minimum needed to be viable. Before we make any hasty determinations let’s go through some of the theory crafting and calculations to fully determine the viability of a Nomsy solo-carry comp.

Nomsy

Nomsy’s Numbers

  • Base HP: 400
  • Attack Range: 2
  • AD: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125
  • AS: 0.60
  • Mana: 90 / 140
  • Armour: 40 / 75 / 125 / 175
  • MR: 40 / 75 / 125 / 175
  • Spell: Anti-heal + 1% max hp per second for 8 seconds
  • Fireball Damage: 100/130/160/200

I always forget Nomsy has 400 HP when he starts, which is honestly pretty abysmal. He is basically a walking Sunfire Cape and you really want to fill him with ‘Snax’ as soon as possible. Speaking of ‘Snax’, let’s keep this info in the back of the mind and move onto figuring out what exactly these snax do for him.

Snax Scaling

  • Level: Per 25 – Total # for Lvl. 4 is 75 Snax (Essentially he needs 75 Snax to hit maximum lvl and 25 for each level)
  • HP: +20 HP per Snax:
    • 400/900/1400/1900
    • This is how much HP he has at each level. Just 25 Snax x 20 HP.
  • AP: +1 per Snax:
    • 100/125/150/175
  • Spell:
    • AP: 100/130/160/200
    • Fireball: 100/125/150/175
    • This is how much AP he as at each level. Just 25 Snax x 1 AP and the add to the 100 base AP every unit has.

How do we calculate the damage of his spell with the new AP?

Well, we simply take the AP he has, divide it by 100 and multiply it by the base damage. For example, if a unit’s spell does 100 damage and they gain 50 AP (making the total AP become 150) it goes to 150 damage. (150 -> 1.5 x 100 = 150)

Damage: 100/162/240/350
These are his damage numbers at each level.

The worth of a ‘Snax’

We know 1 Snax always equals 20 HP and 1 AP. But how much Armour and MR is it worth?

From level 1 -> each Snax is worth 1.4 R (resistances MR & Armour) and worth 2 R from level 2 onward and is granted upon a level up.

So technically the value of each Snax goes up after lvl 2.

While this shows what the worth of a snax is to Nomsy it doesn’t clarify what the worth of a snax is for ‘us’.

To answer this question we need ask, “On average, how much investment does it take to receive +1 snax?”

Well to get one you have to:

  1. use up one unit slot to play a trainer
  2. use at least 3 gold to 2* star a trainer
  3. use at least 6 more gold to 3* a trainer

Now at face value this may seem pretty easy to obtain an extra snax per round but let’s look at the hidden implications behind fulfilling each requirement.

  1. use up one unit slot to play a trainer

    a) often it makes your board weaker to play a trainer, especially in early rounds with only a few board slots -which is when you want to play them to stack earlier.
  1. use at least 3 gold to 2* star a trainer

    b) If you natural it it’s fine but factor in the cost of rolling for upgrades if you don’t
  1. use at least 6 more gold to 3* a trainer

    c) You have to roll to hit any 3* unit almost every time. Hitting the easiest unit (Heimerdinger) doesn’t stabilize your board. In fact you could spend 20-40+ gold just to get 1 extra snax per round.

There are many times where the snax are worth an incredible investment of resource and times where you’re just playing those units anyways. Knowing the value of an extra snax requires observing the trajectory of your Nomsy scaling and in relation, your board strength. As getting your Nomsy fed earlier and hitting levels faster can easily mean a huge difference towards the outcome of your game while over-investing can leave trailing behind.

(note to editor: i could not for the life of me get the above paragraphs to format correctly. Hopefully you have an idea of what i was going for XD)

TL:DR:

The value of 1 snax is worth a lot, both in power and resources.

Trainers

Trainer

Now let’s talk about the Trainers who enable Nomsy!

  • 2 Trainers – Summon Nomsy!
  • 3 Trainers – 100% Bonus ability damage!
  • The price of 3*-ing all trainers: Heimer (9) + Tristanna (18) + Lulu (27) = 54 g

We can take a look at how Trainers can scale with Snax:

  • 0/25/50/75 Snax per Level

Having at least 5 Snax per round makes a difference of one round for the interval. Basically 25/5 = 5. Anything lower than that does not change how quickly you get your next Nomsy power spike. This is not super relevant as I’m sure most of you can tell but it is good to state the fact when debating the worth of putting that extra Trainer in or not, or rolling for an upgrade.

Some other useful thresholds to keep in mind:

  • If we have two 2* Trainers we get 4 Snax per round, taking at least 6 rounds to lvl a Nomsy (a full stage.)
  • A full 2* three Trainer board is 6 Snax per round. 75/6 = 12.5 (13 rounds) 6 rounds per stage so about 2 stages and a half to fully level a Nomsy.
  • Two 1* trainers (the slowest growth you can have) board takes 2 entire stages (12.5 rounds) just to level a Nomsy once, that’s only 500 HP and 25 AP after 12 rounds. Don’t greed it for that little. Build your strongest board rather than playing unlevelled trainers.
  • Three 3* trainers give 9 Snax per round meaning it takes 9 rounds (3 rounds for a level & 9 AP + 180 HP per round) to level it all the way up.

I’d say if you were to take away anything from this know that, on average 1 stage equals 1 Nomsy level. So if you put in Trainers at stage 3 you will have a level 2/3 by stage 5. I don’t think it matters too much when you put it in as long as your feeding it with levelled Trainers. Early on you usually only have two 1/2* star Trainers either way so you don’t miss out on much. I’d rather just play my strongest board and roll down for them at 3-2 if I don’t natural at least 1 levelled trainer.

Min-Maxing Nomsy

Let’s finally talk about building up this Nomsy and min-maxing him as much as reasonably possible. This is usually the fun part of my deep dives as I like sharing the big numbers and theory crafting different optimal hypothetical situations.

Calculations

Let’s say we play the most optimal Trainer opener ever:

  • 2* Heimerdinger + 2* Tristana and then we get Lulu 2* from ‘Three’s Company‘.
  • Three 2* Trainers = 6 Snax per round
  • By stage 3-2 Nomsy will be (7 x 6 = 42) Level 2 with 17 Snax.
  • Then we hit ‘Think Fast‘ to 3* all our Trainers.
  • We need at least 36 gold to hit everything.
  • Fast forward to stage 5-1 our Nomsy is now: (11 x 9 = 99) Level 4 with 66 Snax

What are Nomsy’s stats at this stage? Well he has 141 AP and 3220 HP. His Fireball does 422 damage -> 844 with 100% more damage from 3 Trainers.

Of course we can add chalice’s and whatnot to boost his damage even further but more realistically what we have learned is that even with the most perfect of scenarios Nomsy really does not have the damage capacity to ever be a functioning solo carry. As a supporting unit in any comp Nomsy is a shining star but without even talking about his cast time, positioning and attack speed -the resulting numbers cannot support the amount of investment we’d have to make in order for Nomsy to do it all alone.

I don’t want to leave you guys on such a disappointing note so I decided to share all of the different methods and strategies I came up with maximize Nomsy! Entertaining theoreticals like this is a fun and easy way to improve your game knowledge and learn the inner mechanics of the game.

Fireball Scaling Methods:

Let’s start by maximizing the damage of his ‘Fireball!”

All of these calculations use a 4* Nomsy with 25 Snax (aka 5* Nomsy)

3x Chalice: 90 AP

290 AP = 507 dmg (x2 = 1014 dmg)

The classic 3 chalice combo. 1000 dmg per cast sounds great with back line access but for the mana pool he has it’s just a tad underwhelming. Keep in mind this # is after 100 Snax so the lobby will presumably be at stage 5-1 with very strong boards.

Eye of the Storm: 40 AP -> 120 AP

320 AP = 560 dmg (x2 = 1020 dmg)

Now this is a fun one and something Kent mentioned in the patch rundown about ‘Eye of the Storm’ on Nomsy. Here is a a quick board I made with Tempest:

You can combine Chalices with it but it’s a bit tricky due to the Eye being right in the front. If you want to know roughly the amount of AP/Damage he would do with both of them combined you can check out the next one!

Pandora’s Box 6 Chalices: 180 AP

380 AP = 760 dmg (1520)

Sometimes life gives you lemons and sometimes it give you Pandora’s Box to reforge all those lemons into lemonade. If you manage to get this you could theoretically have 6 Chalices on Nomsy leading to a near 1-shot KO against most units on the board.

The issue is you could do the same with one 1* Ao Shin with two Archangels, use the rest of the items to have an actual front line as well to make sure you hit your spell. It’s just a bad payoff moment.

If you want to know the numbers for 6 Chalice + Eye of the Storm, just add the number we got there to this one and try calculating it yourself as an exercise!

Nomsy Boards

You can’t play items on Nomsy so you have to get pretty creative to buff many parts of his stats. There are a lot of different ways to buff Nomsy but there all not worth mentioning separately so I’ll just list some of the other boards I tried: Jade Nomsy, Guild Nomsy, Shimmer Nomsy (Big Gem) & BD Nomsy.

Guild Nomsy

I thought of a board with 3-4 Guild because Nomsy loves getting these buffs and it’s one of the only ways to buff him with traits. It’s worth mentioning Guild synergies very well with Trainers.

You can play Lillia + Sejuani over Ornn and Sylas as well. It’s not a great board but it does manage to give Nomsy a few buffs that he loves: Mana Regen, HP, AP, and do a smaller degree Atk. Speed. There are variations of this board where you carry Ryze and can actually win so I would recommend that instead when trying to gain LP.

Jade Nomsy:

Trainers fit pretty well into Jade and the statues act like Zeke’s for a faster cast. The chalices also help enable some Soraka for a more stall orientated comp. As long as Shi Oh Yu and Neeko aren’t out damaging Nomsy I’m a fan of this board.

Augments

Moving on let’s discuss some Augments that can maximize Nomsy’s potential!

Obviously we know the ones that are really great to have such as Meditation I-III, Makeshift Armour I-III, Better Together and Stand United I-III. Personally I think Makeshift’s a tad bit overrated and doesn’t really assist Nomsy unless playing the Bruiser + Corki comp.

Axiom Arc, Best Friends I-III and Blue Battery help Nomsy cast more often which he sorely needs to do. Jewelled Lotus works but it’s such a minimal increase in damage that it’s never worth it. There are a bunch of other combat augment that all help Nomsy to a degree but if we’re being honest he benefits the most from econ augments which help get his Trainers on his board quick. Trade Sector, Think Fast, and True Twos are all great. Meditation plus 1 econ augment is all he really needs in my opinion.

I also wanted to mention I don’t think Zeke’s is a great option for Nomsy. He has a .6 AS which is terrible (3rd slowest AS) so I would much rather have three chalices on Lulu for her to cast and give the 152% AS to Nomsy instead. I think 1 Zeke’s is fine if you must and don’t have Meditation but then why are you playing Nomsy carry without meditation? I value the quality of one cast more as even with a lot of investment his cast time isn’t shortened by much even with three Zeke’s because of his abysmal base AS.
Even in the Chinese meme variation, they’d rather have a trap claw than a Zeke’s. Also worth mentioning that I don’t really consider that comp to be a true Nomsy carry as it seems Ryze and Nami are doing a bulk of the damage. It’s just Trainer Mages with some extra steps.

Moka’s Big Nomsy Tech

I don’t want to leave you guys off trying every variation to no avail so I decided to share with you all the one variation I have the highest hopes of working. An untested but true pure Nomsy solo-carry comp:

After weeks of theory crafting this is my best and most hopeful Nomsy solo-carry board. Keep in mind I don’t think this will amount anything really. You’re not going to be seeing this being played in any serious lobbies and if you get a Personal Training opener I recommend just playing Nidalee reroll. BUT what I’m trying to say is that if you are trying to do a legit Nomsy SOLO carry (where Nomsy is your main source of damage and the centre of your comp), I’m confident this is the best way.

For a comp to be successful you have to ignore the final board and focus on the lines that get you there. Sure ‘Eye of the Storm’ or ‘6x Chalice’ Nomsy does far more damage but you’re going to die before you ever get there 99% of the time. You can’t have a successful reroll comp without being stable during the level you slow roll -lvl 6. in this case

You want Astrals to reroll and Trainers to feed Nomsy. With 2 bruisers you already have 600 HP and 20/50 HP per round. The idea is you’re getting 2.5 extra Snax per round and as we covered we know the value of even +1 snax can be very valuable.

Sure you’re not getting the 1 AP and Resistance bonus per level but in my opinion, the HP is the most important part by far. The AP can easily be artificially pumped through various means such as Chalices, Astrals, Guild, and augments. The reasons why HP is so good on Nomsy is that unlike normal units who have a consistent resistance (MR/Armour) number, Nomsy gains resistances every level and by level 4 he has an insane value of 175 resistance BUT he only has 2k HP. This means that he would benefit a lot more from HP bonuses for more effective HP.

So you play the board above and go for 3* Heimerdinger and Skarner at stage 3-1 (lvl 5) then push to level 6 after hitting much like in Nidalee reroll. You can then sit at 6 looking for Nami’s, Tristana’s, Illaoi’s, etc… Illaoi can hold tank items if you need to slam them but try waiting for lvl. 7 to play them on Sylas.

Using your own judgment you can push to lvl. 7 as well for the 3 Mage power spike (If trist is contested I would just push levels as you can most Astral units on any level). You can play Sylas for 3 Mages and as your main tank. Then push to lvl. 8 to fit in another Bruiser like Ornn or Shen. If you manage to go 9 you can play Zoe over Nami if you didn’t manage to 3* or depending on the lobby.

You can also just play Zoe and do 4 mages (5 with an emblem) or play Soraka or Bard. Bard is especially great because he helps Nomsy cast more and keeps him as the main carry instead of another 5 cost taking over the comp.

Start cloak as you need an infinite amount of them for Chalices + Dragon’s Claw. You also want to go for Tear every carousel which should be fairly easy due it not being very contested. The positioning is somewhat awkward but just get Chalices on Nami, Lulu and Nomsy while having your important units next to the Bruisers. So Lulu, Sylas, Nomsy and your other important bruisers. You won’t be able to swap sides or anything so just sit and pray to Mortdog every round. It’s not too bad against assassins so that’s something.

Good augments are obviously Personal Training, Meditation, Makeshift Armour, Bruiser Emblem, Mage Emblem, Axiom Arc, Big Friend, 2nd Wind, Ascension, Think Fast, Trade Sector and Better Together.

Extras + Takeaways

  • I won’t be talking about any of the Trainer bug abuses here as I don’t think there should be any reason to spread awareness of a bug if the Riot team already is aware.
  • Nomsy’s Fireball is deceptive. It’s a lot larger than shown visually, able to hit units in adjacent hexes.
  • Featherweights did not procc on him, neither did Triforce work.
  • Is he a 4-cost, a 5-cost, a 10-cost? or…a god? Nomsy is also tier-less so he benefits off of Built Different. He has transcended beyond the need for a trait.
  • Calculation wise, re-rolling all your Trainers to lvl. 3 rarely seem worth it unless you have an augment like ‘Think Fast’
  • Nomsy can be added to your board a bit later as long as their levelled the trajectory should roughly be the same.

Conclusion

Nomsy is a very strong and versatile addition to any team. I think both the meta and the calculations have shown this but sadly that’s about as far as he goes. Sometimes it may look like Nomsy has carry potential when does the 2nd most damage on your team but those values are largely inflated due to his burn effect and never tell the full picture. It’ll be cool to see how he does in the bruiser comp and I’ll definitely be creating a fresh account to see how far I can climb with it but I think we can safely say that Nomsy’s numbers are sadly just not enough.

Hopefully you learned a bit more from my usual posts as I put some more effort in helping readers understand how I get certain numbers and how they affect the game. Thanks for reading and please let me know your thoughts and any questions below!

MokaByNone
MokaByNone

21 year old Korean-Canadian with a love for creating and teaching. You can often catch me trying to min.max a game or theory craft my own version of whatever I am obsessed with at that particular moment. My current passion is often TFT as I head the Windfall Tactics TFT server where the mission is to help others improve at the game and do free coaching over at Metafy in my spare time. If you have any questions or comments for me or anything I do feel free to contact me on Discord or through Email!

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mokapark
Metafy: https://metafy.gg/@moka
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/user/MokaByNone
Email: Mokabynone@gmail.com

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